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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just popping in
Joined:
2011/6/3 12:49
Posts: 135
>SuperTuxKart prove to be slow just originally and should be rewriting/speeduped.

I totally agree with kas1e :
* I maded several tests with the Wazp3D debugger and SuperTuxKart
* I have also investigated the SuperTuxKart sources

===> SuperTuxKart is badly written this is why it is slow

Perhaps the PC drivers (OpenGL) got some special optimizations (like buffering the draw functions, using the GPU for transform & Lighting) or just simply a much much faster GPU
But to the end the PC only COMPENSATE this intrinsic slowness

So please dont use SuperTuxKart as a benchmark for 3D performances on Amiga-like machines
There are fast 3D programs on Amiga ... but not this one...

Alain Thellier - Wazp3D & Microbe3D


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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@thellier

With 460 i use your great Wazp....
before this i had a 440 667 mini itx and the A4000 604e366mhz
but with the pegasos everything is changed ...
(All my systems are Amiga OS 4)
for the first time i can really use all the Games, Application, Emulators with good performances...
I dont like too much the sdl system but i m sure if it will be better implemented and optimized probably we will have good performances in all the software Tux Cart too.
For sure a better Warp3d/Mesa/Gallium/glx with all the effect of video card enabled (dx 8, dx 9, dx11) will make a speed up for all the software and gaming . I dont know right now the status of Warp3d that im using now can be compared with Dx7 or major version?

I make an experiment i put in an old P4 2.4 ghz with 2 gb ram a Video Card 7750HD 2Gb ddr3 (pcie --> pci adaptor)... This machine have Pci 33mhz on his motherboard ...
The result was incredible (arma3 and Xcom 2013) run on it , im sure we can have the same result on our loved machine P4 sux compared with G4 1.ghz or compared with and X1000 more... what we need is only drivers support 100% and full video rendering/acceleration

this is the pc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEsKZzi9sQ

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1617
@tlosm
Quote:
Compositing is supported by both these cards

Really? Oh gosh didnt know, but it is implemented in Os4 graphic.library 4.1.2(?) from your HD project?


CompositeTags() is a graphics.library function and, yes, the RadeonHD driver fully supports it. Otherwise MACE simply wouldn't work.

Quote:
I dont like too much the sdl system but i m sure if it will be better implemented and optimized probably we will have good performances in all the software Tux Cart too.

Sigh. Why do you insist on claiming that it's SDL's fault, and that SDL needs to be "better implemented and optimized"?

I told you that 3D SDL apps/games such as Tux Cart only use SDL for basic set up and buffer switching. Everything else is app/game code and pure OpenGL, and therefore performance problems have nothing to do with SDL. Optimising SDL in this case will have zero effect.

Both kas1e and thellier have told you that Tux Cart is badly written (compared to something like Q3), and they know what they're talking about. In any case, improving SDL won't help; an improved OpenGL drivers/system would.

Aside from alpha-blending not being HW accelerated,** our SDL implementation is quite decent.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
http://keasigmadelta.co.nz/ - more of my software.
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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1617
@kas1e

Quote:
Quake3 and SuperTuxKart done differently and by different coders. SuperTuxKart prove to be slow even on PCs (but of course, faster that on our realization of 3d drivers). And of course, maybe something like Huno's libs can speed the things up, just they not for public coder's use.


I just looked at the STK website, and it appears that they did a number of performance improvements in version 0.7.3, such as using LOD (which should make a big difference). The version on os4depot is 0.6.2a.

Have you tried updating your port to version 0.7.3 or later?

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
http://keasigmadelta.co.nz/ - more of my software.
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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@Hans

ok Hans thanks for your explanation, everything is colture,

just i need to understand comparing our Warp3d with DirectX our library is more near to 7,8 or more hight version?

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1617
@tlosm

Quote:
just i need to understand comparing our Warp3d with DirectX our library is more near to 7,8 or more hight version?


It's hard to compare the two, as they are very different. Nevertheless... Direct-X 7 introduced HW accelerated transformation and lighting which Warp3D doesn't support. So, Warp3D would be more like version 6 (IMHO). Yes, Warp3D is old, and is based on the 3D graphics capabilities from years ago. This is why it's set to be retired, and replaced with MESA + Gallium3D.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
http://keasigmadelta.co.nz/ - more of my software.
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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@Hans

thanks Hans,
I understand now better the situation,
right now we are using the old warp3d made for the Virge and the Permedia2 for the old (great)classic machines.
this is why i have great performances with quake benchmark and poor on quake 3 compared with "brother os".
Right now old Radeon we are not using all in hardware effect acceleration.
Hope the Mesa 3d/Gallium soon will born and close a bit the big gap of 3d acceleration compared with Modern Os (lnx,Win,X).
I hope plus we will have the 264 in hardware decoding for make our machine speed up in the video play.

Thanks.
Luigi

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 3846
@Hans
Quote:

I just looked at the STK website, and it appears that they did a number of performance improvements in version 0.7.3, such as using LOD (which should make a big difference). The version on os4depot is 0.6.2a.

Have you tried updating your port to version 0.7.3 or later?


After 0.6.2a they start to use some irrlicht realtime 3d engine, and while i do not know if it necessary to have shaders in or not (maybe not), i know that Yannick (aros developer) already trying to port it some time ago, but it have bugs and still don't works if i remember right. As well as when i see the size of sources/binary i think that there need some better developer to make a proper port of that library than me.. Maybe you ?:) (i know, we all busy with everything:) )

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1617
@kas1e

Quote:
After 0.6.2a they start to use some irrlicht realtime 3d engine...

Ah, that explains it. I've been told that Irrlicht is a complex beast.

Hans


_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
http://keasigmadelta.co.nz/ - more of my software.
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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 3846
@Hans
Quote:

I've been told that Irrlicht is a complex beast.


Who says so ?:) Of course its not pure ./configure; make, but 3d party developer on AROS do it for quite fast time line, so there no reasons why someone from our camp can't do so (of course, if it only can works without shaders at all). But for sure there no needs to spend years on that, it can be done fast, just need someone who will do so and have interest in :)

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@Hans

sorry i ask to you because you are the Geek of Video on AmigaOS...
Do you know if the Radeon 9800 pro and Xt (agp)work in the 2D side on AmigaOs 4? (i know the 3d isnt supported)
I have a pegasos2 and i know this is the top card compatible with the agp of my machine...

thanks


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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1617
@tlosm

Quote:
Do you know if the Radeon 9800 pro and Xt (agp)work in the 2D side on AmigaOs 4? (i know the 3d isnt supported)
I have a pegasos2 and i know this is the top card compatible with the agp of my machine...

To be honest, I don't really know. It should work in 2D, but I don't know what the state of 2D acceleration is (including compositing).

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
http://keasigmadelta.co.nz/ - more of my software.
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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1961
tlosm wrote:

"I will ask huno about his SpeedBoosty if him will not reply i will stop to make donation. :P :P :P :P :P"

please let us know how that goes as I'd be more than happy to send another donation to Huno

_________________
_______________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga1000 & AmigaONE X1000 !
mancave-ramblings

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@328gts
I had been write a post on amigaos fb group with direct ask him for release a dev kit for his boost libs but since today I don't have reply ... It is good in one way silence is better than a no ;)
Hope he will do this

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@Hans
Thanks hans ;)

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@tlosm

ANd Huno Do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L61qv7bYDb4 :)

Great Huno!

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@Hans

Yesterday i tested the 9800pro on pegasosII and no 3d Acceleration and no 2d acceleration too ... :( :(

this card on old ng is the best available sed isnt full supported by AmigaOS4

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 3846
@tlosm
By "2d acceleration" you mean compositing ? Or overlay ? Or both ? As far as i remember 9800 dind't have w3d support, but have compositing/overlay.

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 496
@kas1e

I have to disable the 2d acceleration in gui prefs or the windows moving and rendering in workbench become really sloooooow... i had the same thing with voodoo5 pci on Amiga4000 Os4.1(not with Voodoo3 and 2)

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Re: TREMULOUS ..4 amigaos why not?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 3846
@tlosm
Compositing then .. Seems 9800 support really limited (what is sad, as it pretty much good card).

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