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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
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Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
Posts: 2815
@salass00
Rather than argue about how many angels you can fit on a pinhead, I tried with & withOUT the FORCE option, when a .info file was missing. Turns out that *having* the FORCE option is MUCH better:

Without FORCE it opens a full-screen shell during booting to show an error message, and snapshotting never works permanently (since no link is ever created).

With the FORCE option there is no error message, the RAM disk has the expected (default) icon, and snapshotting DOES permanently work!

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Don't forget the official support forum for OS4!
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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 19:36
Posts: 370
@all

AFAIK since update 1 the order of the icons appearing on the left corner has changed, and the ram disk icon does not appear as the first icon on the top left corner of the screen, but below all other icons instead.

IMHO this is a good solution, as it is not the system partition which again IMHO is the icon that has to appear at the top.
And as a conseguence the icons are not moved around like on os3.x when a CD is left in the drive at boot.

So maybe there is something in the works to snapshot the RAM Disk like every other disk icon. but sincerely how many times do we need to snapshot the RAM disk icon at all?

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/3/10 10:51
From Germany
Posts: 579
@Raziel
Oops - there must be some mis-connection between eyes and brain here, I really read "copy" - of course Chris wrote "LINK". Yes, that's the way I do it myself since OS3.9 - for whatever reason, it never worked predictivly on my machines <OS3.9...

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/12/1 18:01
From Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 902
@ChrisH

Quote:
ChrisH wrote:
@salass00
Rather than argue about how many angels you can fit on a pinhead, I tried with & withOUT the FORCE option, when a .info file was missing. Turns out that *having* the FORCE option is MUCH better:

A matter of taste, I suppose.

Quote:
Without FORCE it opens a full-screen shell during booting to show an error message, and snapshotting never works permanently (since no link is ever created).

This is what I'd prefer and recommend, since it shows me explicitly that I didn't achieve what I set out to do and lets me fix it. Imagine, for a more obvious example, that the link did not point to the def_ram.info, but to some other icon file which I wanted to use explicitly for this ram disk. Then if the link is made (allowed and camouflaged by FORCE) to e.g. a wrong, non-existant filename, I would see it falling back to the default icon instead of showing my chosen icon.

Quote:
With the FORCE option there is no error message, the RAM disk has the expected (default) icon, and snapshotting DOES permanently work!

Are you sure snapshotting works? I can't see how it could, since the unresolved link points to no file which could persist the position. Admittedly, I haven't tried it. (As Knuth once said (paraphrased): Beware of bugs in the above code. I have not tested it, only proven it to be correct.)

Best regards,

Niels

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 773
@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
Another small bug in OS4:

When a Ringhio notification appears above a window, it is *impossible* to move that window to the back. Normally one would click the depth gadget twice (first to bring it to the front, and then second time to put it to the back), but because the notification is always the top window, the depth gadget only tries to bring it to the top (and "fails" because the notification is still above it) and so it never tries to put the window to the back.

There wouldn't be any Ringhio issues if it used Amiga styleguide compliant windows like AmigaDOS requesters instead of splashing itself directly on the screen like an old Recoverable Alert Guru or something. Somehow the whole thing seems like a hack to me. Since it's of little use, I've disabled it on my system.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1617
@xenic

Quote:

xenic wrote:
@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
Another small bug in OS4:

When a Ringhio notification appears above a window, it is *impossible* to move that window to the back. Normally one would click the depth gadget twice (first to bring it to the front, and then second time to put it to the back), but because the notification is always the top window, the depth gadget only tries to bring it to the top (and "fails" because the notification is still above it) and so it never tries to put the window to the back.

There wouldn't be any Ringhio issues if it used Amiga styleguide compliant windows like AmigaDOS requesters instead of splashing itself directly on the screen like an old Recoverable Alert Guru or something. Somehow the whole thing seems like a hack to me. Since it's of little use, I've disabled it on my system.


It's supposed to be a notification, NOT a requester or a window. As such, it works the way that it's supposed to. The issue that ChrisH noticed sounds like an intuition bug that needs fixing.

Hans

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/5 2:30
From Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 155
@xenic
Quote:
There wouldn't be any Ringhio issues if it used Amiga styleguide compliant windows...


The Amiga User Interface Style Guide is way, way, way out of date. It was published in 1991 - almost 20 (!!) years ago. I own a copy myself. To try to justify any position based on this document is not a great idea. UI conventions have changed significantly in the last two decades.

It would be nice if some of the Amiga documentation was brought up to date, but it is a manpower problem, as usual.

I am working in a small business and I know how documentation always suffers. The developers are too busy playing catch-up and there is no budget for a documentation team/position.

Hopefully this situation will improve as OS4 revenues pick up.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
Posts: 2815
Another OS4.1 bug, which has not been fixed by Update 1 or 2:

OS4 recognises my Competition Pro USB joystick fine (bought from AmigaKit), when I plug it in.

BUT, if I *leave* it plugged in, and then do a (soft or hard) reset, then it does not recognise it. At least AmigaInput doesn't make use of it. I have to unplug & re-plug it back in again, before I can use it.

This bug is particularly annoying because games (esp using AmigaInput) tend to only check what joysticks are connected when you start them, and so won't recognise the joystick even after it is unplugged & re-plugged, without quitting & restarting the game.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
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Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
Posts: 2815
OK, I just checked, and the USB Inspector shows the joystick after a reset, so it must be another AmigaInput bug...

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I love using Amiga OS4.1 on my A1-X1000 & Sam440
Don't forget the official support forum for OS4!
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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/5/1 17:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 831
@xenic

Quote:

There wouldn't be any Ringhio issues if it used Amiga styleguide compliant windows like AmigaDOS requesters instead of splashing itself directly on the screen like an old Recoverable Alert Guru or something. Somehow the whole thing seems like a hack to me. Since it's of little use, I've disabled it on my system.


People really seem to mis-interpret the purpose of Ringhio messages, and seem to confuse them with requesters. I have commented on this a couple of times, and will gladly do it again:

What requesters and Ringhio messages share is that they both DISPLAY TEXT. However, requesters are designed to require user input - a confirmation, or an option selection. On the other hand, Ringhio messages are just notifications: they display something, and disappear. Based on the type and importance of the message, the programmer will choose which of the two ways is appropriate. Generally speaking, requesters should be used when user input, confirmation, or acknowledgement is needed.

Ringhio messages represent a totally new UI concept introduced in OS4.1u1. As such, they cannot (and do not even have to) conform to old standards such as the AmigaStyleGuide.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
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Joined:
2010/6/1 11:46
From United Kingdom
Posts: 229
@ChrisH

Might try your startup-sequence solution to boot hanging at splash screen because of no network. Also find that annoying when the router has happened to be turned off for some reason, scary first time and had me thinking the Workbench partition might be corrupted.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
Posts: 2815
Another OS4.1 bug, which I had forgotten about:

Using Workbench, if I Leave Out a file on the desktop (by selecting the file, then choosing the "Icons/Leave out" menu item), it works fine. But if I *delete* the Left Out file (on the desktop), then it's entry in the Volume:.backup file is never removed.

The main effect is that the .backup file could potentially get very full of junk entries. A smaller effect of this is that if a file of the same name & path is created later, it will immediately appear on the desktop, which may not be expected. Nothing major, but it should be dead-easy to fix.

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I love using Amiga OS4.1 on my A1-X1000 & Sam440
Don't forget the official support forum for OS4!
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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 982
Update2:

Ringhio started to have a problem again. At first after installing Update2 it worked fine but now when it's started it uses 100% CPU usage and eats memory(DiskLed docky shows something is reading from the hard drive also during that). It does that a little while. Sometimes longer and sometimes shorter time before it stops doing so. I don't know/remember what I've changed in my system recently (maybe nothing).

Edit: SOLVED ! Corrupted prefs file.


Using Workbench to create new drawers/dirs. If I'm using a short file name there's part of the "Rename_me" default string in the file name. For example if I name it "Test" (and the rest of the string is empty) it creates correct icon Test.info but the dir itself becomes Testme_me.

Backuping disk partitions. If I have root drawers of both the source and the target open (f.ex. sys: as source) the root drawer pops up in front of all other windows every now and then. Also some dirs/files change their name randomly. F.ex. I have System (first letter is capital one). Sometimes WB displays it as SYSTEM (all letters capital) then system (all letters small) and then System again. It can end up with any of those after file copying have finished.

Menus of Notepad were not accessible when a DOS error requester was open on screen.

All OS versions (if I can remember):
When deleting files and they go to the .recycled dir on JXFS and SFS. Sometimes some of the files in .recycled might have text ICONTEST in the beginning of the name (f.ex. BlaaBlaa_my_file becomes ICONTEST_my_file). What's that ? Is it forgotten feature test or something else ?

Anybody else with these problems ?


Edited by TSK on 2010/7/11 21:56:17
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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
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2007/5/19 13:23
Posts: 2815
@TSK Quote:
Ringhio started to have a problem again.

Since you can't give steps to reproduce this problem, I suggest using Snoopy to log what Ringhio is doing when you start it. And send that along with the Ringhio prefs file(s) to Rigo.

Regarding your file-related problems, that is some really wierd stuff! Would no-doubt help if you could give an *exact* set of steps needed to recreate these problems.

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I love using Amiga OS4.1 on my A1-X1000 & Sam440
Don't forget the official support forum for OS4!
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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 982
@ChrisH
Quote:
Since you can't give steps to reproduce this problem, I suggest using Snoopy to log what Ringhio is doing when you start it. And send that along with the Ringhio prefs file(s) to Rigo.

Regarding your file-related problems, that is some really wierd stuff! Would no-doubt help if you could give an *exact* set of steps needed to recreate these problems.


How to reproduce them (which ones are simple like these):
Ringhio: Just start it (double clicking its icon on WB) or add it into WBStartup and reboot. No need to do anything else to reproduce the problem. Also I didn't get any debug output of any form. Ringhio worked without problems some weeks after installing Update2. Then at one day these old familiar problems started to happen again. I didn't change its settings or anything during that one day.

Where can I find email address of Rigo from ?

File copy problems: Open your SYS: drawer. Open your SYS_Backup: (or whatever) drawer. Select all files from SYS:. Drag them with mouse over SYS_Backup: window/drawer and drop them there. That's it. (Using WB=Workbench.)

ICONTEST_my_file: I really don't know how to reproduce that because it's random and I don't know how JXFS and SFS code are written and I don't know their full feature list either.

Creating new drawers of WB: Just try to create a new drawer (with WB). That's it. It looks like that's random behaviour too. Don't know how to make that easier to happen.

Notepad menu problem: Try to run any application, which has a bug that causes DOS lib to display an error requester, together with Notepad.

I can't give you any better instructions because that's humanly impossible.

@all
It looks like nobody else have these problems ?

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 773
@gregthecanuck

Quote:

The Amiga User Interface Style Guide is way, way, way out of date. It was published in 1991 - almost 20 (!!) years ago. I own a copy myself. To try to justify any position based on this document is not a great idea. UI conventions have changed significantly in the last two decades.

When an old program fails on OS4 it's because it failed to obey the rules in that 20 year old documentation but if someone adds something that is visually and operationally inconsistant with the traditional Amiga GUI then those old rules are outdated and don't apply. Personally, I don't take the styleguide literally any more, but the concept of presenting a consistant interface to the user remains valid in my view.
Aside from that, I'm not convinced that it's wise or safe for a program to write directly to a screen that's owned by another application. Intuition public screens are designed to accept foriegn windows and requesters but I think that slapping a block of text directly on the screen may violate some of the same rules that old programs are accused of breaking. That's just my personal opinion which is probably worth about 2 cents

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 773
@xenic
Here is how I reproduce a bug in WBStartup:
1. Copy one of the system utilities/commodities not currently listed in your WBStartup to another partition.
2. Open WBStartup and add the copied utility to your WBStartup list.
3. Select the newly added utility in the WBStartup lister and click the "Information" button.
4. Cancel the Information window (do not save).
5. On my system the new WBStartup entry turns blue and has the wrong directory path and sometimes filename.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/4/28 3:57
From Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 704
@xenic

Confirmed it here, check amigaworld.net thread. It's hard to reproduce.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/8 18:02
From Germany
Posts: 389
@TSK
Quote:

Creating new drawers of WB: Just try to create a new drawer (with WB). That's it. It looks like that's random behaviour too. Don't know how to make that easier to happen.

That has never happend here.
Quote:

File copy problems: Open your SYS: drawer. Open your SYS_Backup: (or whatever) drawer. Select all files from SYS:. Drag them with mouse over SYS_Backup: window/drawer and drop them there. That's it. (Using WB=Workbench.)

That has never happend here.

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Re: Some OS4.1 bugs
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/1 12:20
From Bologna, Italy
Posts: 92
@TSK

Quote:
Ringhio started to have a problem again. At first after installing Update2 it worked fine but now when it's started it uses 100% CPU usage and eats memory(DiskLed docky shows something is reading from the hard drive also during that). It does that a little while. Sometimes longer and sometimes shorter time before it stops doing so. I don't know/remember what I've changed in my system recently (maybe nothing).

How big are the following two files ?

ENVARC:ringhio.appsprefs.xml
ENVARC:ringhio.miscprefs.xml

If they are bigger than a few KB, please email them to me.

@xenic

Quote:
Aside from that, I'm not convinced that it's wise or safe for a program to write directly to a screen that's owned by another application. Intuition public screens are designed to accept foriegn windows and requesters but I think that slapping a block of text directly on the screen may violate some of the same rules that old programs are accused of breaking. That's just my personal opinion which is probably worth about 2 cents

Ringhio uses standard window.class objects to show messages on foreign screen, thus it's playing by the rules

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